SUPAMNEO wrote:
Yeah, i personally dont eat lots of red meat cause i just dont enjoy the taste.
Really? wow most people i know love it. It was hard for me to give it up, but next week is my one year vegetarian anniversary lol
.A gentle truth.
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 SJSharkie16 |
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Posts: 17 (08/07/08 14:11:27) |
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 Vedanta227 |
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Posts: 208 (08/07/08 14:56:50) |
"It was hard for me to give it up, but next week is my one week
vegetarian anniversary lol" ******************************************************* CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep up the good work!!!!!! With Love to Josh (Video)
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SJSharkie16 |
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Posts: 18 (08/07/08 14:58:54) |
thanks
oops wow, lol that was mistake, I meant one year anniversary not one week
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Angelquee |
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Posts: 1085 (08/07/08 19:59:10) |
Terra Grobana wrote: Of course there is a lack of distribution. That's a factor. But eating meat is also a factor in causing poverty. Have you ever heard the case of
Supply and Demand?
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Angelquee |
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Posts: 1086 (08/07/08 20:21:50) |
maggaloo wrote:
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08/07/08 20:24:40.
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Angelquee |
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Posts: 1088 (08/07/08 20:37:35) |
SUPAMNEO wrote: If you own a goat or several chickens, you can drink goat's milk and eat chicken's eggs - that does not kill any animals. Also, if you're poor and you own few goats and chickens, you may not want to eat the chickens because chickens will at least provide you with an egg a day whereas if you kill a chicken, you'll have no eggs for however long it takes for a chick that you own to grow up into a chicken. As for a goat, you're not going to want to kill the goat because once you do, you will not have another goat that produces milk for however long it takes for a baby goat to grow up. Therefore, if you're poor, it's smarter to stay a vegetarian because once something is dead, it can't produce anything else.
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BMWbiker1200gt |
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Posts: 299 (08/07/08 21:11:23) |
Well, I say to each his own. No where in the bible does it say animals were given a soul. According to the Holy Bible (which talks about Jesus), only humans
were given a soul. God gave us dominion over all the animals and every thing that creeps upon the earth. He told Peter in the bible to kill and eat all kinds
of animals, and when Peter said no because it would defile him, God spoke to him and said for Peter not to call anything defiled or unclean that God has
saunctified for our benefit.
Eating animals is causing a shortage of food supply? That is a new one on me. Let me just throw this out. If the deer population, etc, were not thinned out at various times through the year, each year millions of animals would die of starvation. Which is kinder. . . to die quickly, or to starve to death. Starvation is a horrible way to die. The pain as organ after organ shuts down as the body tries to maintain itself. It isn't a pretty site for man or beast. If you're a vegan, then more power to you. If you are not, you aren't breaking any of the laws that I know from my God (Jesus Christ). Will you be healthier as a vegetarian? Probably not totally as there are proteins and vitamins in meats that you can't get is most vegetables. Can you live solely on meat? I don't think so as the cholesterol (except for deer meat) is really nasty in meat. I believe like the bible teaches, all things God created in moderation. God would never saunctify which animals would be good for us, if he didn't expect us to eat them. While I'd like to give all animals a brain, the simple fact is, they have instinct for the most part, even repetitive instinct. An animal can have an offspring and if you remove that offspring for 3 days then bring it back, the animal will usually kill it, because it has forgotten all about that offspring. Now while some humans are like that, most animals are like that. If we determine that animals have a brain and therefore have a soul, then we must surmise that all things that grow (vegetables included) must have a brain (even if it isn't like ours or other animals), and therefore we shouldn't eat the vegetables either. Take for instance a tomato plant. It is a large plant, but it has many offspring in the form of tomatoes. If we eat that tomato are we killing the plant's offsping? I think you can see how this can really get confusion and even ludicrous. As I said, to eat or not to eat? That is something you have to decide for yourself and not be embarassed or bullied into either decision. As for me, if God said it's okay, then that settles it for me. Sorry. |
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Vedanta227 |
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Posts: 209 (08/07/08 21:11:37) |
Bravo Angelquee!!!!!!
Everything you said is right on!!!!! Intelligent and perfectly thought out. Thank you soooo much for this thread. All the information that you, Corie and others are providing is giving non-vegetarians some serious food for thought!!! Once the info is read, whether people admit to it or not, they will start questioning their lifestyle choices. And the reason why we keep on keeping on is because we are passionate about saving the lives of these precious beings of God. And others will listen!! They'll have their own righteous calling and will start being part of the solution. Just by the very simple fact that people are coming to this thread and reading what is being said, their lives will never be the same. All of these crucial truths are now implanted in their consciousness and will have a profound impact!!! Some will make changes to help stop the "killing" immediately. For some it will take longer but it will happen!!! As you can see, there is a lot of resistence. That is the way of the world. People don't give up their mindsets, their traditions, their security blankets easily. But we ARE an evolving species. All of us are moving toward perfection. We WILL return to our source.....LOVE!!!!! However, when there is "Killing" of any kind to any of God's creations, we will continue to stumble; our progress will be slow. With Love to Josh (Video)
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SUPAMNEO |
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Posts: 893 (08/07/08 22:47:08) |
Angelquee wrote: The point is they don't do as you said, THEY EAT THE ANIMALS!!!! And what about all this farming for soya that is WRECKING the amazon rain forest. Did you know that all this organic food and so on, have made the poor even poorer. AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE IN MANY AREAS THE EFFECTS ARE FELT!! and keep Josh out of it... seriously... 
Siggy made By Jannette1 Grobie sister to Rikki, Ves, Jannette, Sarah ,Ellen ,Lisa, Mae, Morena, Lish and Malley Supplier of Regurgitated ingredients for Mallow bombs 
read it or DIE!! its my fanfic http://supamneo.yuku.com/chat/room/id/63 use and abuse as a josh groban live chat room!! Nothing to install!! |
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maggaloo |
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Posts: 6651 (08/07/08 23:15:54) |
Thanks Angelquee for your answer..I dont' kill anything either, except flies, because they spread disease, and I really dont' want to die of food
poisoning.
however you missed this bit out Do you take medicine?Could you give an answer on that one please. Also.. what about the rainforest being cleared so we can have more palm oil..do you eat foods that have palm oil or use face creams and beauty lotions that have palm oil,, because the orangutans are soon to be even more endangered than they already are, and all the other animals that live in the rain forest... plantation after plantation of palm oil trees are taking away thier habitat! how do you feel about that.. ? I am not being an antagonist here. These are genuine questions. I eat meat, and I have no intention of giving it up. However, I don't like the way animals are slaughtered and here in the Uk there is a huge awareness of this. Sainsburys, after a campaigne by Jamie Oliver (a very popular, hip, trendy tv cook), are not going to provide chickens from battery farms anymore, and more free range eggs are sold than battery farm eggs. Our chickens are, more and more, free to roam, housed correctly, RSPCA controlled. But I will still eat one. I also think its idealistic beyond comprehension to expect people living in Africa to drink milk and eat eggs only.. they need meat.. its a fact. They would starve if they didnt. I would say here, that if you are going to lecture to someone who lives there, and knows about it.. take a trip.. save some money and take a trip to Africa and see and live it for yourself...... walk a mile in thier shoes, before you dare to critisise them. Maggs xxxxx  |
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SUPAMNEO |
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Posts: 895 (08/08/08 01:04:36) |
I also think its idealistic beyond comprehension to expect people living in Africa to drink milk and eat eggs only.. they need meat.. its a fact. They would
starve if they didnt. I would say here, that if you are going to lecture to someone who lives there, and knows about it.. take a trip.. save some money and
take a trip to Africa and see and live it for yourself...... walk a mile in thier shoes, before you dare to critisise them"
THANK YOU!!! I have lived here my whole life, and while i am one of the wealthier, i know many, many INCREDIBLY poor Africans. Another thing, Zulu's Like meat. Its a fact. They cannot afford Tofu and soya beans. What they can have is a few chickens and goats running around. Its food for them. In most rural areas they have chickens. HECK YOU DRIVE AROUND IN MY TOWN AND YOU SEE CHICKENS RUNNING AROUND, and you know what, NO-ONE will ever steal anyone else's chickens.
Siggy made By Jannette1 Grobie sister to Rikki, Ves, Jannette, Sarah ,Ellen ,Lisa, Mae, Morena, Lish and Malley Supplier of Regurgitated ingredients for Mallow bombs
read it or DIE!! its my fanfic http://supamneo.yuku.com/chat/room/id/63 use and abuse as a josh groban live chat room!! Nothing to install!! |
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Terra Grobana |
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Posts: 352 (08/08/08 09:08:38) |
Laura,
Of course there is a lack of distribution. That's a factor. But eating meat is also a factor in causing poverty. Have you ever heard the case of Supply and Demand?More than you have. You have it backwards. People who are desperately poor cannot afford the meat in the first place, thereby causing lower demand. My point is that there is plenty of food in this world to feed all the humans and the animals that they eat (though I'm not sure of all the biofuel energy that is burned). Again, the problems are distribution, trade barriers, poor agricultural technology transfer, and lack of freedom. Even if there were any truth to your claim that meat somehow causes poverty (which I doubt), it is far behind all these other factors. In English, we have many different words for a similar concept: murder, execute, kill, slaughter, exterminate, etc. The English language is the most complicated language; or so I've heard. The orginial Ten Commandments were not in English but the commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill uses the word 'kill'. How do we know that it isn't really supposed to be 'murder', 'slaughter', 'excecute' etc? After all, the Bible was originally in Hebrew. The same Bible from which the Ten Commandments came also provides for capital punishment of criminals as well as slaughter of animals for food. So if the Hebrew word "kill" is the same in all these situations (which I again doubt), it is one with multiple meanings or translations, depending on context. In fact, the translation I used in this case came from the Jewish Publication Society. Clearly, the rabbinical authorities who worked on this understand the differences in word meaning as well as proper translation. I'm glad you characterize rabbinical scholars as "stupid." Your genocide example is a poor one. The difference in this case is in the amount force needed to stop mass murder versus individual murder. This has nothing to do with eating meat. By the way, I'm glad you have worked out what we "need" or don't need. We each get our biologically-available nutrition from a variety of sources. The same goes for phamaceutical products and clothing items. Proper management of the animal resources that go into all these products leads to more availability of food and non-food products. Some people believe that we were meant to have "dominion" over the Earth. And this is what the Bible supposedly says. Supposedly, we were created in the image of God. All right, so perhaps we were meant to have a bit of power of this world. But with power, comes responsibility. If we were created in the image of God, then we must follow in His example. What does that mean? God loves us. So to should we love this Earth. If you love a creature, you would not want it to die. In the begining, when God first gave us life, we never killed any of the animals. We could even speak to them. Now, how could you kill someone that you just had a conversation with? The fact that we could speak to them implies that they have souls.So now you're Doctor Doolittle?  We don't carry
on conversations with animals. At best, we form attachments to pets. When pets die, we might be sad, but we do not mourn for them the same way we mourn for
humans. The reason I have read (from rabbinical authorities) is that animals do not have souls.
I was just revealing the truth to June and everyone here. Often when people are faced with a bad truth about themselves, many can take it the wrong way and see it as an insult. I'm not trying to insult Josh or anyone here. I'm trying to let people be aware of a more healthy and more humane lifestyle.Oh, so it's my "fault" for being insulted? That's rich! Right up there with blaming a murder victim for being killed, no doubt. Again, if you want to be vegetarian or vegan, have at it. I am not going to be critical. Again, accusing the carnivorous among us of being the same as murderers (or even supporters of genocide) is just plain wrong. Stop digging yourself deeper. Supamneo, Thank you for your comments. I think you are getting at a concept called "eco-imperialism," where many well-meaning projects or policies end up being counterproductive for people in places like Africa. You might be interested in a book called "Eco-Imperialism: Green Power, Black Death" by Paul Driessen. He lays out what policies cause what effects. Ron |
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SUPAMNEO |
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Posts: 931 (08/08/08 09:11:08) |
Cool sounds interesting, i would love to know more, because I see the effect it has on people.
Siggy made By Jannette1 Grobie sister to Rikki, Ves, Jannette, Sarah ,Ellen ,Lisa, Mae, Morena, Lish and Malley Supplier of Regurgitated ingredients for Mallow bombs
read it or DIE!! its my fanfic http://supamneo.yuku.com/chat/room/id/63 use and abuse as a josh groban live chat room!! Nothing to install!! |
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Corie |
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Posts: 254 (08/08/08 14:50:52) |
Here is some information to add to the pile. Here is a link to the full story http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=8775&pst=1081374 There is a great
chart on this link down near the bottom if you scroll down.
In general, among other physical characteristices that determine the diet, carnivores have sharp teeth for killing and tearing meat, different jaws, short intestines that empty before the food can become fermented and rotted and so that fat can pass through quickly and not clog the arteries, and acidic saliva for killing bacteria and other organisms from meat and thus keeping the bacteria level down. Herbivore animals have square, flat teeth for grinding grain and vegetable matter, extra long intestines that allow for the required longer enzymatic action and digestion of plant matter and absorption of it, and the intestines of herbivores can be extra long because vegetable matter won't rot in even long intestines, and herbivore animals have alkaline saliva because acid saliva isn't needed for killing bacteria. If humans were carnivores or omnivores, our intestines would be only 3-6 times our body length rather than the 10-11 times our body length that they actually are. Thus, the usual physical guidelines of carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores clearly classify humans as herbivores or even more strictly as fructivores (fruit-only eaters). Many of the diseases humans are victims of are due to the fact that humans have adopted the habits of carnivores and omnivores when we are not either one of these, and we don't have the physical body characteristics needed for handling any meat, despite being able to aquire the taste for it. Also, what I find really interesting is that carnivores usually eat freshly killed animals and don't usually eat dead or decayed animals. The carnivores leave the dead animals to the "scavengers" - animals with even more acidic saliva than even the carnivores have (scavengers are animals like hyenas and dogs). Most humans who eat meat are not even eating it the way carnivores eat it; rather, they are eating it the way scavengers eat it - dead, decayed, and old - features which cause even greater disease in herbivores like humans than eating truly fresh-killed meat certainly causes. This is all from biology books, but most teachers I ever had were too timid to say what was clearly indicated and tried to say humans were "omnivores," which was clearly NOT true, but they didn't want to have all the meat eaters angry and complaining, and the teachers probably ate meat themselves. Corie
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08/08/08 16:04:18.
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min meleth uireb |
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Posts: 1110 (08/08/08 15:45:41) |
Heh... okay... the bug thing is very amusing.
I've never liked the way that some vegetarians are more than willing to risk human lives (and spend lots of money, too...) in order to keep some animals alive. Animals aren't humans. Animals don't have souls. Humans do. Point of view, yeah, but most people seem to be aware of this difference... 
(I will inevitably edit my posts at least once :P )
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Vedanta227 |
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Posts: 210 (08/08/08 19:35:51) |
Corie what an amazing article. There is no denying the cold hard
facts presented. Here is concrete physical proof that we humans are not meant to eat flesh!!!! No moral doctrines necessary here. OUR PHYSICAL MAKE UP DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR THE PROPER DIGESTION OF MEAT!!!!!!!! (I mentioned in an earlier post that after John Wayne died they did an autopsy on him and found 30 lbs of undigested animal carcass still in his intestines and had been rotting and petrifying there for many years!!) So look no further; here is proof positive. WE ALL ARE HERBIVORES!!!!!!!!!! SO PLEASE LET'S ALL
STOP AND
TAKE SOME POSITIVE STEPS TO BRING MORE LOVE INTO THIS WORLD AND STOP THE SENSELESS KILLING AND BRUTAL TREATMENT OF ALL ANIMALS!!! This planet is moving in that direction so everyone should just go with the flow. These times they are a changing!!! Just as views on slavery, women's rights, segregation, etc. have changed over the last century and a half, so are the views about killing and eating other living creatures changing........evolving.......progressing!!!!!!!!!! Just a few years ago in the U.S. it was ILLEGAL FOR DIFFERENT RACES TO MARRY! We are of course now appauled at that notion and so also will we be appauled at the idea of killing animals and eating their flesh (many of us already are!!!). So it is inevitable, it's happening. We all are returning to the true beings we were all meant to be and once were a long time ago. Thanks again Corie for GREAT INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING!! ps: If any of you have not already read this article, please do so now!! Very fascinating information on the human anatomy!!!!!!!! http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=8775&pst=1081374 We are here on this thread because of love and to educate and enlighten. 
With Love to Josh (Video)
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08/08/08 21:04:20.
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GrobaniteGoth |
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Posts: 3015 (08/08/08 21:48:21) |
Jesus Christ people, did any of you actually read any of the things that Maggaloo, Ron, SUPAMEO or BMWbiker1200qt posted in response to you? They made
lots of excilent points, which you all seem to be ignoring completely.
~Theresa
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Corie |
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Posts: 255 (08/08/08 22:36:34) |
Thanks Vedanta. Most of this I learned in the 1960s, and it just made sense to me then to go vegetarian. I mean, it was pretty obvious to me then that the
human race had taken an unhealthy turn, and I was part of the back-to-nature movement then as well - eating more whole grains, fresh fruits, veggies, and a
variety of seeds and nuts. I discovered a whole world of taste and healthy eating. Corie
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Vedanta227 |
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Posts: 211 (08/08/08 23:42:12) |
Hey Corie, Well that type of eating is obviously what our bodies
With Love to Josh (Video)
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SUPAMNEO |
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Posts: 953 (08/09/08 01:08:03) |
GrobaniteGoth wrote: Thankyou... and it believe its called selective hearing. I am all about the food chain baby!! PS I treat my pets better than some people treat there kids... AND MY KITTENS EAT MEAT, SO DO I, its all about the food
chain!!
Siggy made By Jannette1 Grobie sister to Rikki, Ves, Jannette, Sarah ,Ellen ,Lisa, Mae, Morena, Lish and Malley Supplier of Regurgitated ingredients for Mallow bombs
read it or DIE!! its my fanfic http://supamneo.yuku.com/chat/room/id/63 use and abuse as a josh groban live chat room!! Nothing to install!! |
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